tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-52912413020249030.post6988346258787861018..comments2024-03-12T11:58:24.510+13:00Comments on Otagosh: The Journal - the Curate's Egg issueGavin Rhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17965552923012880262noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-52912413020249030.post-24042136338850337342015-08-14T04:55:52.018+12:002015-08-14T04:55:52.018+12:00An intersting aside, Gary Fakoury was a Unitarian....An intersting aside, Gary Fakoury was a Unitarian. He (as I do) did not believe Christ pre-existed. Christ, after all, is our older brother. A huge topic/doctine and, yes, it is true that there are about fifteen scriptures in the New Covenant that clearly indicate Christ did pre-exist. Hopefully, one is aware that some scriptures, especially in the NC, have been corrupted from the original language. It often only takes one word to change the meaning of a scripture and the<br />the tranlaters back in the day did have an agenda. Another doctrine they tampered with involves scriptures referring to governance. Consequently we have<br />the Roman Catholic goverance. Just one example, in Hebrews 13-- Obey those that have the rule over you. Complete nonsense.<br /><br />There are any number of people in some of the churches of God that do NOT buy into all the doctrines taught in the organization. One of the reasons I still<br />attend is they are, to my knowledge, the only Christian organization that teaches this is not the only time of salvation. A teaching that should be obvious, not from scripture, but from understanding the love of God and his nature. It's amazing that many Christians believe that those not saved will burn and be tormented for all eternity. Now that really shows how great God's love is. I don't think anyone could come up with a more monstrous doctrine.<br /><br />Another aside. There are many (not a large percentage) in the Church of God that are Unitarians, including six (that I'm aware of) salaried pastors that are<br />Unitarian. Sadly, they are not willing to make that well known. Perhaps a little "ashamed of Christ" as scripture mentions??<br /><br />God is looking for people that are learning to be honest. A rare characteristic. And if they learn to be honest they will have no problem being humble. Those people, whom God will choose, will be able to help Christ govern in a godly way. Something humans haven't been able to do from day one.Jim Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17125354916042876462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-52912413020249030.post-52660802811543631972015-08-13T08:13:20.823+12:002015-08-13T08:13:20.823+12:00I believe it was Plato who said: "We was lay ...I believe it was Plato who said: "We was lay hold on the best opinions of men, as borne on a raft, to take us over the dagerous waters of life, unless we can find a more sure word of God to take us safely." Well, The Journal publishes the worse opinions of men. But I thank God for revealing that sure word to me.Tom Mahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087223683733643082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-52912413020249030.post-42046496089417025822015-08-13T03:48:53.341+12:002015-08-13T03:48:53.341+12:00As I stated in an earlier post, Fakhoury's acc...As I stated in an earlier post, Fakhoury's account strikes me as a little odd. I detect a melodramatic effect that might play well with readers who already have their minds made up. Fakhoury did not have to go to the then WCG leadership to find out about the Trinity. And if the WCG leaders were unable to make a satisfactory response, this meant little. The great momentum of Christianity is behind the Trinity with the attendant scriptural support. What Armstrongism offers as an alternative, ironically referring to the Trinity as pagan, is polytheism. They get around the monotheistic issue here by stating that the oneness criterion is satisfied by the fact that "god is a family." But this is not an antidote to polytheism. A family consisting of many separate and individual gods is still not monotheistic but simply polytheistic. <br /><br />In another part of the article, Fakhoury counterposes Christian tradition against "what the Bible says." This is a very popular mom-and-apple-pie slogan made, usually passionately, by Armstrongites. As an Armstrongite told me in a restaurant discussion one time: "I don't believe what Christian theologians say. I believe what it says in the Bible" as she rejected commonly understood, scripturally based Christian doctrines This, of course, is learned propaganda that emanated form HWA himself (the W apparently stands for W). It results in people believing in British Israelism, racism, an almost non-existent doctrine of grace and a conflation of the OT and NT. And it apparently ignores all of the scriptures that are compatible with the Trinity. Fakhoury presumes, because he has been taught this, that anything within the bounds of Christian tradition must be wrong. The "Christian tradition" label is itself evidence of paganism, has no Biblical foundation and no further analysis needed. <br /><br />To state "their position was never based on scripture", is to ignore the fact that the WCG leadership at that time was moving the organization from cultism to Christian orthodoxy (for which there is scriptural support). Subsequent developments in WCG/GCI indicate there was a genuine commitment to theological development here, not just political expediency. Let me hasten to add, I believe WCG Leadership at that time greatly mishandled the transition. Avoidable offense was given and many people left the fold unnecessarily. This is mostly due to the societal configuration of the WCG at that time. It was bound to the hierarchical, top-down view of who was important. While the ministry attended supportive workshops, the average lay member received squat - they were thrown to the wolves and many congregations imploded. But how many church managers deal with a sea change like this? What body of experience can be drawn upon?<br /><br />I always thought it was interesting that Armstrongites sing a Trinitarian hymn at their services. It is called "Come Thou, Almighty King". They have elided the fourth verse to make the hymn less obviously Trinitarian. It is amazing how close Armstrongites can be to something and not see it. Willful myopia. <br /><br /><br />-- Neotherm Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487906691943831671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-52912413020249030.post-20977942771134086502015-08-13T01:46:50.029+12:002015-08-13T01:46:50.029+12:00"Big church splits, firings and purges produc..."Big church splits, firings and purges produce strange phenomena. One day the church has loyal, faithful employees, effective and good-hearted ministers; the next day these same individuals are evil plotters, disloyal dissenters, snakes, inciters to rebellion (which, you must remember, is akin to witchcraft), attackers of the [One True Church] and the poor innocent brethren within, etc., etc."<br /><br />This seems familiar... Where have I seen this sort of thing before?<br /><br />Oh, I know, <b>Nineteen Eighty-Four</b> by George Orwell: And we do have experience in being Proles....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com