2003 plus five equals 2008. The hallelujah train appears to have been derailed. Perhaps Brian didn't shout loud enough. Maybe his god was busy all during 2008, or was off on vacation in the Maldives. Maybe the mighty Tamaki deity was just snoring off a hangover and missed the engagement completely - all of which were Elijah's helpful suggestions when the prophets of Baal failed a fire-lighting exercise (1 Kings 18: 27-29)
The video, along with reports of Tamaki's inspired miss-is-as-good-as-a-mile prophecy, appear on the Talk to Action website. A two part piece on dominionist churches in the so-called 'apostolic' tradition (by Rachel Tabachnick) appear here and here, while another article sums up the issues here. Some quotes:
American media treatment of religion is typically a mile wide and an inch deep...
The strongly anti-democratic nature of dominionism comes out perhaps most strikingly in the doctrine of “spiritual fatherhood” that’s now in mainstream media parlance especially due to the fact that Eddie Long has been accused of coercing sex from his “spiritual sons.”
Leaving its coercive spiritual aspects aside, the Discipleship and Shepherding movement established the sort of pyramidal hierarchies of authority one would typically find in a military structure – “shepherds” could disciple “sheep”, or serve as “spiritual fathers” to “spiritual sons” but such “sheep” or “sons” could in turn take roles as shepherds or spiritual fathers to other Christians presumably lower in the spiritual pecking order. And so on down the line.
Tamaki prophesied a church-based takeover of New Zealand would occur within five years and Eddie Long, whom Brian Tamaki has described as a “spiritual father,” lustily endorsed Tamaki’s theocratic vision...
So, has Tamaki's prophecy at least edged closer to fulfilment?
This is a prophecy which failed to be fulfilled despite Tamaki's launching of a political party. Tamaki is quite prominent and in the nation’s Reader’s Digest Poll has topped the list as the least trusted person in New Zealand. Canada's Benediction Blogs On notes that after the 700 men swore oaths of allegiance to Tamaki, New Zealand’s cult watch listed Destiny Church as being in the "danger level." Earlier this year a number of members walked out of a service at the network's Brisbane church.
Lord Baal just doesn't seem to deliver the goods, not in Elijah's time, and not today.
In other news, Ted "Cueball" Johnson is currently puzzling through the theologically-landmined question, What will the Wonderful World Tomorrow be like? whilst getting in a dig at "them savage reincarnation-believing Hindooos"...white privilege much, Teddy-boy? Yep, getting rid of British-Israelism has really improved the racism in "the Church"! Totally!ReplyDelete
And if you believe that, I've a lovely bridge to sell you....
Teddy's commenter (yes, in the singular) answers: Read this book! Don't bother with the Bible! Yep. I agree! Thing is, why bother with the baby (Jebus) if you've already thrown out the bathwater? The kid's long since died of exposure, boys.
notice that Eddie Long is mostly concerned with controlling the wealth....lolReplyDelete
I live realitively close to Long's "kingdom" and have watched his actions for years.
it amazes me that people fall for the likes of Long, Paulk, Swilley, ....or any of the TBN bunch.
false teachers abound.
And not a "true" one in the bunch!ReplyDelete
Gavin, why are you taking the name of the Maldives in vain? You should have said Tristan da CunhaReplyDelete
Much like the United States, the question is not who would rule NZ, but why in Baal's name would anybody WANT to?ReplyDelete
Had a great weekend at our Annual conference it was a privilege to have keynote speaker Dr. Pita Sharples(Maori Party Leader), Sam Lotu-Iiga(National MP Maungakiekie), and Su’a William Sio (Labour MP for Mangere) along with many other dignitaries present for our opening ceremony. BTW. Last years keynote speaker was Len Brown.ReplyDelete
A great night was had by all... and once again media prove they're only ever interested in crap for the masses by not showing the real goings on with Destiny Church... to be honest not that it really bothers us we're still here still providing amazing service to our communities hence the reason for MP's wanting to engage us (numbers).
Our integrity on the street level where the metal hits the road is where mass media matters little and where time is too precious to read bogs(oops blogs)and where we continue to gain power, strength and influence... something you boggers will never achieve from your keyboard and mere opinionated bogospheres! You'll never have the guts nor the means to get into the communities and be the difference and bring change.
That work is for people who care enough to do something.
By the way we raised over $1 Million to extend our school facilities.
Oh, well better get back to it.
Rush Limbaugh used to say that mainstream gays would cringe when the drag queens came out and made a public spectacle of themselves on gay pride day. The mainstreamers rightly felt that the flamers made the whole orientation look bad to outsiders who were not familiar with that scene.ReplyDelete
And, real, genuine Christian leaders cringe every time flamboyant nutburgers steal the scene and make everyone think that they're what Christianity is all about. I know, because when I used to be an atheist, I lumped the genuine ones in with the counterfeits, making all into one easily rejectable group.
Unfortunately, we know from prophecy that at some point, one of the counterfeits is going to seize control. I think that's why some of us experience such visceral reactions to the widely variant cast of characters including such people as Ron Weinland, this Eddie Long, and other assorted goofballs and village idiots. We know that eventually some fake messiah is going to screw up the whole world!
In the USA, TBN and Daystar are full of crazy nutcase liars.ReplyDelete
Crazy nutcase liars who many people are brainwashed by.
Of course, there's a billion dollars being poured in to the effort to insure that females are dependent, supportive, and submissive.
And of course, Jesus wants to abolish the minimum wage and demolish Social Security and the Environmental Protection Agency.
On those "Jesus" networks, there's a husband talking while his wife is next to him nodding her head like a bobble-head doll and saying the obligatory "oh yes!" and "hallelujah", shaking her head and waving her hands in the air.
And people pay these actors to lie to them! After all this time I'm still amazed every time I see one of these videos.ReplyDelete
Give me some money and I'll tell you what you want to hear too.
However, we must admit, bullshit and narcissism sounds and seems more plausible with an New Zealand accent :) American Screechers just can't competeReplyDelete
Bob, be careful about using the pronoun "we" in the phrase "we know from prophecy," because what you think you know from prophecy, and what I think I know, and what our friends in UCG and other eschatological religions think they know are all different.ReplyDelete
What I think I know from studying long lists of specific prophecies is this: prophecy reveals nothing but the inaccuracy of prophecy.
Byker Bob said,ReplyDelete
"Unfortunately, we know from prophecy that at some point, one of the counterfeits is going to seize control."
Yes, BB, and he will screw up the whole world as you mentioned. He won't have to work very hard to so though.
Just remember, it is inevitable, but necessary.
"We know that eventually some fake messiah is going to screw up the whole world!"ReplyDelete
Not eventually, Bob. It happened two thousand years ago.
Got it! Apparently you are now studying to become a Jew. I've run into others who took this route as they left Armstrongism. If you are starting to believe in something, that's a good thing!
If you are starting to believe in something, that's a good thing!ReplyDelete
Bob, that strikes me as sort of an "Emperor's New Clothes" type of statement. That, if other people also believe in superstitious nonsense, that somehow validates your beliefs.
The one shining legacy of the World Wide Church of God is, the number of Atheists it inadvertently helped to create.
Those are definitely some high-calibre drugs that megachurch is putting in your coffee, Bob.ReplyDelete
I get to participate in communion and group praise at the mega church, and sometimes derive some encouragement from them. Everything else comes from my own independent study.
Also, I was just being obtuse with you over that Jewish site. Back in the early 1980's, as an avowed atheist, I'd committed much of the information from your link to memory. Similar material was shared by a couple of erudite rabbis in a radio broadcast, and I'd occasionally use it to invalidate Jesus for the benefit of my Christian adversaries.
But, that wasn't the worst! About six or seven years ago, I came upon a lengthy dissertation on the web written by a Jewish scholar who demonstrated how the Jewish religion could have evolved from Canaanite sources. There are Canaanite festivals and holy days which were very similar to those given to Moses. Solomon's temple was actually almost a cookie cutter copy of the Temple of Melgart in Phoenicia which predated it. I also learned to quote Finkelstein.
These are things which I was looking to to obtain healing, but it all turned out to be ineffective. Healing has come to me, but I don't believe you'd like or be receptive to the source.
"Healing has come to me, but I don't believe you'd like or be receptive to the source."ReplyDelete
Try and wrap your head around this concept, Bob: I neither need nor require your particular "source" for "healing". Further to this shocking revelation, that is actually okay.
As I have just finished telling a Gracie member on another Internet forum, I am not suffering (not since I was freed of religion, at any rate), and my life is several orders of magnitude better than it would be, were I still ensnared in irrational belief of any flavour.
Just because I don't happen to "believe" or "have faith" that a Jewish rabbi who may or may not have lived three millennia ago, who you think is now some kind of supernatural entity that is somehow the same as Santa Claus ("He sees you when you're naughty/he sees you when you're nice.") and that I am somehow lacking, or less of a human being, or that I have less morals than you do is, I feel, a rather narrow-minded perspective to take.
What I find unfortunate is that your perspective has so narrowed, that you can no longer comprehend the idea that there is no one "right" religion, and that there are many (many many many) more religions besides Christianity in the world today. Some of them less harmful, some of them more harmful, and some of them somewhere in between.
And some of us no longer have any need for religion at all, not for "healing" nor for any other reasons (not even metaphor or poetry, which can be obtained from other sources with less commitment required). And that is perfectly, 100% okay.
Hey, whatever floats your boat, for now.
What happened with me may eventually be what happens for you. I did find healing in atheism and agnosticism. While my condition was superior to existence in WCG, the healing ended up not being sufficient. There were still things after three decades which had remained unhealed. I wanted more, and ended up acknowledging Jesus Christ, and what He had done for me.
I do not study to try to substantiate whether Jesus ever existed, or was who and what He said He was. That, I already know beyond the shadow of a doubt. The way He showed us is so vastly superior to every other philosophy or systematized theology that the sheer simplicity of it all boggles the mind. However, there is much dispute over the details of the transition between Old Covenant, and New Covenant, although the same principles of love and forgiveness flow through both Old and New Testament, and apply to those who love God and seek Him.
What I do study to learn more about is what is required of me as a New Covenant Christian. The people who wrote 2,000 years ago had their feet much closer to the fire than we do today.
I can understand why the Antenicene Fathers put you to sleep. Frankly, all they write about is Jesus, and His teachings, and how they relate to life as it existed in Roman times. False teachers have burned all of us, using Jesus' name. It takes years, and much work to purge the effects false teachers imprint upon out psyches.
"Frankly, all they write about is Jesus, and His teachings, and how they relate to life as it existed in Roman times."ReplyDelete
Right, and since I live in the 21st century, and don't "believe" in the literalized Pagan Christ that the Antenicene fathers were promoting (often at the point of a sword), the texts had little to nothing by which I could benefit.
Of course, your long screed has done nothing but prove, to those with the eyes to see, that you are only interested in reading the Jewish texts through a post-modern filter, poisoned by the idea that the christological figure was the Jewish messiah; that bell has long since been un-rung for me, Bob, and once that house of cards comes down, all the rest of the Pagan Christ mythos follows swiftly.
What you persist to fail to comprehend is that this is perfectly okay, and will be perfectly okay, for the rest of my natural existence on this earth. Your "...for now." is condescending, supercilious, and smacks of the holier-than-thou attitude that we all used to possess, when we were in "the one true church".
Do give it up, Bob; Jesus works for you, fine, gravy. Just don't try and apply the literalized Pagan Christ as a panacea to every other human being on this earth, and you and I shall get along just fine. People don't come out of cookie-cutters, Bob! Some of us have never had the literalized Pagan Christ ingrained in us, even by osmosis, and it's not just former church members I speak of; Jews and Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims and Taoists and Jainists and Manichaeans and Mandaeans may not be "good without God", but they all are good without Jesus.
It's the post-modern blinkered Christian view to think you can throw blind faith in a mythical narrative at all of the world's peoples and problems, and they will be magically cured. The real world just doesn't work that way, Bob, and the sooner you accept that, the happier a Christian you will be (because the people around you will be happier when you quit preaching at them). And if George Bush's administration had been those kinds of Christians, the American Crusade currently underway in the Middle East right now, would never have gotten off the ground.
All I can say, PH, is "been there, done that." The points you are making, and the references you are citing are familiar for me, because I, too, once proof texted amongst them. Now, my mind has been opened to information I once subconsciously, due to my post-
WCG pain, blocked out.
Non-belief can be a wonderful, cleansing intermediate step, but it is a simply awful, and totally unfulfilling final one. I still hope that one day, in the Kingdom, you and I can sit down over some beer and pretzels and discuss how much we've learned.